6.7 Talking with B's
For some people, organizing means you have to go out and pressure people into doing what you want them to do. Like voting for your candidate. Like contributing money to your cause.
You have to talk them into doing something they don’t really want to do, something they wouldn’t do on their own.
Years ago I tried doing that kind of thing because it was what I thought was expected of me. But…
I hate pressuring people.
So eventually I quit doing it. I don’t want to be making decisions for other people about how to run their lives. I have enough trouble making my own decisions about my own life.
Does that mean that I can’t do organizing? If I can’t push people to change, does that mean I can’t be a real activist?
Not at all, because there’s another option…
You help someone with a good heart make her own decisions and find her own way forward.
You help her put together a plan for activism that’s true to who she is.
And that plan will be sustainable because it’s hers. And it will give her life the kind of meaning that matters most to her.
Be warned, though, you might end up with a result you’re not happy about. For example, she might decide she doesn’t want to engage in activism at all. And …
If that’s the decision that’s right for her, then she has every right to make that decision.
How do you identify B’s? Here are some things to look for…
They’ve expressed unhappiness with the current state of our politics.
They’re not totally shutting down in denial.
They’re not sucked in by delusional conspiracy theories.
They’re willing to have a genuine conversation with you.
They can be sincere and vulnerable with you.
They’re willing to look at themselves and be at least a little bit self-reflective.
They like nurturance better than ideology.
Now you can see why I recommend focusing on B’s instead of C’s. Because you don’t have to manage them. You get to help them discover what they want to do about activism.
I remember having conversations with C’s where I felt I had to get them to make big changes. Those conversations were a grind.
But I find conversations with B’s are…
Fun.
And deep with meaning. And deep with care.
And these conversations are…
Diagnostic.
You get find out if this is someone you want to spend more time with or not. Is she someone you want to help grow into deeper activism? Do you want to be her champion? Is she someone you’d like to invite to work with you and your team on a project?
What follows is just one example of the kind of conversation I like having with B’s. I’ve made this up but it’s rooted in real conversations I’ve had. It’s true to the feel and flow of such conversations. It’s just more condensed and focused.
Talking with Suzanne.
Hi, Suzanne. I wanted to ask you if I could do a discovery interview with you.
What’s that?
It’s where I ask you questions to get to know what you think about politics and to get to know more about who you are. That’s the only agenda I have. I won’t pressure you or try to change you in any way. You get to be you.
I don’t know if you’d enjoy talking with me, I’m pretty negative about politics.
That’s perfect. That’s just what I want to hear—what’s true for you. And by the way there are six permissions that come with a discovery interview. I want you to know that upfront. The most important one is this…
If I ask a question you’d rather not answer, you can just say “pass” and I’ll move right on to the next question.
And here are the other five…
You get to take whatever time you need to answer the question.
You get to think out loud.
You get to have mixed feelings about any issue.
You get to change your mind at anytime about any answer.
You don’t have to dress up any of your answers, I simply want to hear what’s true for you.
I’m hoping we could spend an hour together because I have a lot of questions. How does that sound?
Okay, that sounds good, I guess.
I’m sensing some hesitation.
What if I decide I want to quit before the hour’s up?
Of course you get to end the interview at any point. Just say, “I want to stop,” and we’ll stop and you don’t have to explain why.
Okay then, I’m game. What’s your first question?
What’s your relationship to politics at this point in your life?
I quit voting years ago and haven’t gone back. Can I explain why?
Please do.
I used to vote mostly for Democrats, but I was not very happy with the choices. Then I read an article about how Bill Clinton had turned his back on working people, the base of the party, in a drive to win favor with the big money donors. He got the donors, but he wrecked the Party. He even bragged about it. He said he had killed the New Deal. Which meant he didn’t just abandon working people, he turned against them.
When I read that, it suddenly became very clear to me why I was so dissatisfied with Democrats.
And then Obama, despite all the good stuff he did, promised to do single payer health care, but he broke that promise. And his base was the investment bankers. They are the ones who came first for him. When I saw that, again I was unhappy with the Dems.
Then 2016 happened. I would love to see a woman president, but not Hilary. I didn’t see her bringing the party back to its base. Forgive me if I misjudged her, but it seemed to be she only wanted power.
There was one moment when I thought about voting for Trump just as a protest, but then my stomach went sick. He’s too disgusting. So I just dropped out.
How did you feel about that?
It wasn’t my first choice, but I just felt done with supporting people I didn’t really want to support.
What about now? How is it for you being a non-voter?
I hope you’re not going to give me one of those lectures about how everyone should vote, like it’s our civic duty.
I’m definitely not going to do that. Before we started I promised that I was just going to ask questions about you and not push for you to change, and I keep my promises. But let me ask has anyone given you one of those lectures?
Oh, yes.
What’s that like for you?
I feel sheepish. I have this nagging feeling that I should get back to voting.
Is that should coming from the outside or from the inside?
Good question. I think it must be inside me, because if it wasn’t I think I would laugh off those little lectures from well meaning people.
Could you tell me about the inside should?
I wish politics was a very different kind of thing. I wish there were all kinds of great people to vote for. I wish our politics was making things significantly better for the majority of people.
What’s the difference between a wish and a should?
Oh, I see what you’re getting at. I get to hold onto the wish and get rid of the should. It’s not my fault that politics is so messed up. But having said that, I feel sadness inside that I’m not engaged in any way to make things better.
Would you like to play with some possibilities to see if there is in fact something you would enjoy doing and feel good about? Something in alignment with your values.
Sure, I guess. Yeh, okay. One thing I know about myself is I like making things better. Also, I like being part of a team.
What’s an example of that?
My work. Four of us set up a company nine years go, and it’s still us four. We do brand development and marketing for small business owners, including a lot of start ups. We’re totally ethical. We never sell anything to anyone that they don’t absolutely need. We keep our prices affordable, so we don’t make the big bucks, but we’re really happy about what we do. Oh, and we do a lot of hand-holding and emotional support. Small business owners need a lot of that and most companies don’t provide it. I think that’s why we always have a waiting list.
Have you ever thought about your work as a kind of activism?
No, what do you mean?
Well, small businesses are so important to the economy of a community. They keep resources in the community as compared with the big box stores run by major corporations who suck resources out of the community.
I see what you’re saying. Me and my team are passionate promoters of small businesses. And okay, I’d like to claim that as a kind of activism. We’re doing something not just for the clients we serve directly, but we’re contributing to making things better for the community. Okay, that feels good. It’s much more important than voting for candidates who don’t care about us, isn’t it.
That sounds right to me. So is that enough for you?
It might be, but I’d like to see if there’s more. Like if there’s some way I could pull myself up out of my despair about politics and help make it better.
Okay, let’s see if there’s something that would really work for you and make you happy.
“Happy” is a word I don’t associate with politics.
Well, you’re in good company. Most people hate politics. But there are some who have found a way to make a contribution they love making.
Interestng.
Who’s someone you listen to when she speaks about politics?
My friend, Delsie.
What is it about her that you like?
She’s all heart. Her politics comes from somewhere deep inside. I once told her she should run for office, and she looked at me like I was insane. She said, “I thought you were my friend.” I said, “Okay, strike that comment from the record.”
Is there anyone in office you feel the same way about?
You know there are people I like when they give their speeches, but when they get in office it seems like the system tames them or corrupts them.
Is there anyone you think has not been corrupted?
Yes, there are a couple I’ve seen on YouTube lately stirring things up. I found myself watching them to the end of the video. But no one from my district.
What would it be like to support just one, two, or three people who you see as representing what you care about and believe in? There’s a nonprofit called “Leaders We Deserve” which recruits young people to run for office who have values you might like.
That sounds interesting. Maybe even fun. My Uncle Max bought paintings from unknown artists who he thought had great potential. He loved the adventure of that. And three of his artists actually did hit it big. He got to say, I knew them when. And they often thanked him in public for his early support. I could see doing something like that with candidates. I’ll check it out.
Back to your friend Delsie. She sounds like what I would call “an independent moral force.”
That’s exactly right.
What about supporting her in some way?
Well, I cheer her on, I’m there for her as a good friend. Okay, she runs a nonprofit that helps teen girls move from the foster system to an independent life. I could put some time and money into supporting Delsie. Maybe I could do a workshop for the girls on how to present themselves to the world, you know, personal branding.
But would that be enough? There’s such an urgent need to fix things at the national level. Especially for young people. Things are so bad for them.
Maybe the question is would that be enough for you?
I don’t have an immediate answer.
It sounds like you’re talking about the local grassroots approach to political change versus that national electoral approach.
True. But which one is right?
Or, maybe ask, which one is right for you. Where you can put your heart.
With Delsie and the girls, definitely. And maybe I’d write up something about those girls. Like looking at the national political scene from the perspective of what they need to make their lives work. The disconnect. Issue a challenge to the Democrats.
You said you liked being part of a team. What if you put together a group of kindred spirits, like 4 or 5 of you, a pod of partners, to think through political activism together?
A pod of partners. That sounds like exactly what I need. Would we have to do anything in particular?
No, you’d just do whatever you decided was good for the world that was also good for you.
And we could just take our time to figure that out?
Absolutely.
Intriguing. This is definitely where I want to start. I’m going to invite Delsie. And then Carmen and Zoe. I’m going to propose that we call ourselves the “Bad Attitudes.” We could meet like every other week for two hours. And it would be great if we found some political things we’d like doing together.
How does it feel to settle in with that?
Good, very good. And I can imagine us having possibility conversations like what you and I are doing right now. I’d really like to go deep with each of them to get to know what they’re thinking and feeling. Just because I care about them. But also they might have perspectives I’d find helpful myself.
We’ve come to the end of our time, but I want to say how much I’ve enjoyed talking with you. I’ve enjoyed your sense of adventure and your sense of fight. I feel inspired by you and I hope you’ll stay in touch and let me know how it goes with your pod.
Definitely.
And let me know if I can ever be of help in the future.
Thanks for that. And thanks for today.
